working4christ2

joe370 · ay 6, '13, 8:47 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

This. But I adamantly disagree about the majority of Baptists admitting that Catholics are Christians. I know that the Southern Baptists do NOT believe that Catholics are Christians and they actively try to covert us to a truly Christian faith.

We pray to Mary instead of Jesus.
We worship statues/idols.
We confess to a man.
We call a man "Father."
We believe that works are critical to salvation.
We crucify Jesus every Sunday.
We have a Pope who is only a man (see calling a man, "Father" above).
We babble our prayers in repetition.
We use superstition in our rituals (holy water, crossing self, sacramentals like rosaries, etc.)

And these are taught to them from childhood.

My sister (now attending a Baptist church) used to say all of the same things. You forgot one: the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon.

Best just to pray for anti-Catholic folks who focus on such silliness. The most ridiculous claim would have to be: Catholics crucify Jesus every Sunday (or everyday for that matter).

PJM · #69 May 6, '13, 8:57 am

Quote:

=Bklynguy;10708725]Yes, I know. Our church has been around for 2,000 years--the church fathers were, in fact, martyrs for the faith. And yet, these groups spring up 1500, 1600, and in some cases 1700-1800 years after the fact, and say THEY are the real Christians. Yeah right. As someone rightly said earlier, it is an inferiority complex.

Truth is greatly damaged by a LACK of Christian charity

PJM · #70 May 6, '13, 9:14 am

Quote:

Evangelical Protestantism is a very "safe" place.

Now don't get the wrong idea. I'm not talking about physical safety. There are thousands of Evangelical Protestants, many in the last one hundred years, who have been horrifically martyred for their faith. I personally knew and know people who lost husbands, parents, and/or children over on foreign mission fields. Their loved ones were tortured and killed because they were Christians.

So when I say, "safe," I'm not talking about "safety from martyrdom."

I'm talking about innocent, pure, fun, loving, friendly, honest--very very honest--daily life.

One thing that can make me lose my temper around Catholics is when they say, with a smug expression on their faces, that "Evangelicals only PRETEND not to drink alcohol, but they have their secret stash at home, and drink in private."

I'm sure that some do. But most don't. Most Evangelical Protestants are very honest and live open lives. They aren't hiding anything. It's hard to hide any glaring sin in the Evangelical Protestant churches, because someone will figure it out (the Holy Spirit will lead them to discover the truth), and they will "out" that person, and there will be a public reckoning. I'm not talking about the "heinous" sins here. I'm talking about things like "use of alcohol" or some other addiction. A lot of Evangelical Protestants have formed "accountability groups" to help the many many men who use porn.

Quote:

=joe370;10708726]True. However, I have never heard of protestant churches rolling out a keg at the end of the day?

Nice post. I enjoyed reading it, and I certainly agree, speaking as a former non-catholic.

SEVERAL Points seem prudent here:

So long as the Commandment of Charity is adhered too [John 13:34] and one is serving God; it is a very good thing; that catholics ought to appreciate.

The Protestant ban on all Alcohol not biblically grounded. Christ dran wine; the Most holy Eucharist is cinfected from Transubstanuated bread and wine.

Like Gluttony; it is the OVER consumptionnthat is sinful.

Matthew 15:11 "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man: but what cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man"

TRUTH: Like God Himslef are singular

Christ abides ONLY One set of Faith beliefs that He did not wait over 1,000 years to make known

And in both the OT and the NT; God choose only One church; that one which he personally founded. Amen

Let us Pray that the Holy Spirit grant true Wisdom and coutage so that God's desire for a single church and faith can be reality.

1patterson · #71 May 6, '13, 2:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJM

OK

So MY Friend; what is your point?

I'd like to engage you in conversation, but I'm missing what you choose to discuss

{no dount my fault

} so help me out here.

God Bless you,
pat /PJM

hello-- i believe the point was --

why do Baptists say Catholics are not christians ?

and taken from the articals on this site, were the reasons -- that catholics are not considered christians-

all though an interesting question is why do baptist's believe they do not need a "valid priesthood"

because with out a "valid" priest hoood , you can't have the real presence or transubstantiation..
so it has to be a symbol--

and then the Baptist's look at all the symbols contained in the ceremonies and in the church buildings''

it just kinda makes ya wonder

usurercatholic · #72 May 6, '13, 3:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bklynguy

Yes, I know. Our church has been around for 2,000 years--the church fathers were, in fact, martyrs for the faith. And yet, these groups spring up 1500, 1600, and in some cases 1700-1800 years after the fact, and say THEY are the real Christians. Yeah right. As someone rightly said earlier, it is an inferiority complex.

are u sure about the 2,000 years?

Emperor Constantine, who made the Catholic religion of the Holy Roman Empire.

The single most important event in all Jewish history changing Judaism from being an active missionizing religion was the following edict by Emperor Constantine in the year 315 CE:

“I. Laws of Constantine the Great, October 18, 315: Concerning Jews, Heaven-Worshippers,* And Samaritans

We wish to make it known to the Jews and their elders and their patriarchs that if, after the enactment of this law, any one of them dares to attack with stones or some other manifestation of anger another who has fled their dangerous sect and attached himself to the worship of God [Christianity], he must speedily be given to the flames and burn~ together with all his accomplices.

Moreover, if any one of the population should join their abominable sect and attend their meetings, he will bear with them the deserved penalties.”

In one ruling Emperor Constantine made it illegal for Jews to missionize, protected Jews who became Christians, and forbade Christians from ever marrying Jews (this was in the second section of his law). Imagine how many Jews there would be in the world today if Constantine had not banned Jewish missionizing?

todays catholic religion is a result of this-- and it is not difficult to see why-- YAWAH or the Holy Spirit had to raise up people -- or prophets-- to expose the error of the catholic religious system--

this is not a new thing-- it happened many times in the Old Testament- with the Israel nation -- just as it happens today over the last 2,000 years--or more--

and just like in the nation of Israel -- and in the time of Jesus the religious systems-- kills the prophets-- of God--

it is easy to see the additional "rules" and sins that have been added to the catholic bible.

Deuteronomy 6:4-9

New International Version (NIV)

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.

joe370 · #73 May 6, '13, 3:50 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJM

SEVERAL Points seem prudent here:

So long as the Commandment of Charity is adhered too [John 13:34] and one is serving God; it is a very good thing; that catholics ought to appreciate.

The Protestant ban on all Alcohol not biblically grounded. Christ dran wine; the Most holy Eucharist is cinfected from Transubstanuated bread and wine.

Like Gluttony; it is the OVER consumptionnthat is sinful.

Matthew 15:11 "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man: but what cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man"

TRUTH: Like God Himslef are singular

Christ abides ONLY One set of Faith beliefs that He did not wait over 1,000 years to make known

And in both the OT and the NT; God choose only One church; that one which he personally founded. Amen

Let us Pray that the Holy Spirit grant true Wisdom and courage so that God's desire for a single church and faith can be reality.

Amen...

fredplont · #74 May 6, '13, 3:53 pm

hello-- i really enjoyed this thread-- thanks for posting --

as a pastor friend once said-- if we call on the Lord Jesus -- and he dosen't come--

and the DEVIL arrives instead

then the "game is over"

or if romans ch 10:8,9,10 -- dosen't work -- we are done-- "toast"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat

To which Evangelical Protestants would respond, "Many of these were born into Catholicism, and have never actually made a conscious, mature decision to embrace Catholicism. And many of these, when presented with the Evangelical Protestant version of the Gospel of Jesus, leave Catholicism and embrace Evangelical Protestantism."

And they have the stats to prove it.

To which Evangelical Protestants would respond, "Yes, God DOES pluck many thousands of Catholics from Catholicism and bring them into Evangelical Protestant churches."

And again, they have the stats to prove it. It's amazing how many Catholics leave the Church to attend Evangelical Protestant churches, not only in the United States, but in South America.

Speaking from personal experience in Evangelical Protestant churches, I would say that between 10-25% of the people in our churches were former Catholics. And I would say that 25-50% of the people had Catholic parents who had left Catholicism and raised their children in Evangelical Protestant churches.

But the fact is, the Catholic Church does not teach "Bible alone," but teaches a "three-legged stool" organization: The Bible, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium. A Catholic who relies only on prayer and the Bible for correct teaching is not practicing correct Catholicism.

I agree, our priests in our diocese encourage people to pray and read the Bible, and there are plenty of Bible studies. But these are ALWAYS done with the Bible AND the Catechism of the Catholic Church, not just the Bible. And the teachers of these studies are qualified individuals who have been through some pretty extensive ministry training, not just a parish member who is willing to "facilitate" the study.

I mean, knowing people.

I attended Evangelical Protestant churches that had around 500 people in attendance. I knew most of these people. Honest. I knew their names, first and last, and I knew their children, and I often enjoyed social times with them in restaurants and in our homes, and during church and Sunday school, I sat with them and knew who I was sitting next to. I did a lot of work with these people (church work).

And we loved each other.

Here's an example of how fellowship in the Evangelical Protestant world works. Years ago, when my husband and I had just started attending our church down in Raleigh, a man in our church was killed on his job (manual laborer, forklift accident). It came across the news and I recognized the name. (I'm not sure I would recognize the name of ANY of the parishioners at my Catholic parish, other than the twenty or so people that I know.)

I immediately gathered up my baby (she was about three months old) and drove over to this lady's house. (Yes, I knew where she lived. I only know where a few people in my parish live!).

When I got there, at least a hundred other ladies were there, comforting the grieving wife and her son. During the next year or so, we kept visiting her, bringing food, and crying with her.

Maybe it happens where you are, and if so, you are greatly blessed. Maybe it happens when Catholics have grown up together. But my husband and I are still very much alone in our parish. And we are friendly, outgoing people who are involved with several ministries in the parish. We know a lot of people by sight, but not in heart.

I know about twenty people in my parish of 7000. It's physically very difficult to get to know people in the Catholic Church, because we do not speak with each other before or after Mass in the nave, and once Mass is finished, there is a stampede to get out the door. We chat with people in the lobby, and because I play piano, a lot of people come up to me and thank me for playing. But people do the same thing at a CONCERT. In spite of all the attempts to make sure that the Mass is not "theater," I think a lot of Catholics still see it as "theater," because they behave as though it's theater.

And of course, there's the drinking thing. My husband and I have a very difficult time with liquor use by Christians. We try to feel comfortable, but we don't, and I don't think we ever will. That's leaves out about 90% of the parishioners. We don't have much in common with them other than our Catholicism.

continued next post

joe370 · #75 May 6, '13, 3:59 pm

Quote:

usurercatholic;10713847]are u sure about the 2,000 years?

Quote:

Emperor Constantine, who made the Catholic religion of the Holy Roman Empire.

Yes, very sure!

The following men all belonged to the Catholic Church to which I presently belong, long before Constantine lived.

Why would you say: Constantine made the Catholic religion of the Holy Roman Empire? Also, Catholicism is not a different religion than Protestantism. It all falls under the umbrella of Christendom.

Ignatius of Antioch

Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

The Martyrdom of Polycarp

When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ***, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath (The Martyrdom of Polycarp 8 [A.D. 110]).

Irenaeus

The Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian

Where was Marcion then, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus then, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago – in the reign of Antoninus for the most part – and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome...

Peter speaks there, on whom the Church was to be built, teaching and showing in the name of the Church, that although a rebellious and arrogant multitude of those who will not hear or obey may depart, yet the Church does not depart from Christ; and they are the Church who are a people united to the priest, and the flock which adheres to its pastor...while the Church which is Catholic and one, is not cut nor divided, but is indeed connected and bound together by the cement of priests who cohere with one another (Letters 66 [A.D. 253]).

working4christ2

Thursday, May 16, 2013

Emperor Constantine, who made the Catholic religion of the Holy Roman Empire.

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